::…TRUTH IS OUT HERE…::

Voice Against Gender Biased Laws and Family Breaking FemiNAZIs.

Indian Women Love to see husband family harassed

These are few mails between a NRI Women and me, it a example how they react and they Love to see husbands old parents and his sisters are harassed with false case on them.

She sent link of 2 comment where it says 498A is wisely used.

I wrote >>

thats opinion of just 2 people;
we have 6000 plus families who says its 100% false.
i can creat a thread in yahoo answers and say its 100% false and i can get more reply to the same than the link you sent.

She replied. >>

Come on!!! This is what needs to change. Am I saying it’s 100% true? Then why do you have to argue that it’s 100% false?
This is just fanatism.
All I was asking you is to think about it. Instead what’s your problem – what do you want – just fight?
Do you think your being adamant is perfect? So much anger against any person is not good for anyone.
You already have a strong network who believe that it is 100% false. You go on rallies, protests, write caustic blogs and anything and everything which has negative connotation. So, no doubt you can get 10000 plus families. That’s not that big a deal.

The big deal is to bring the change, talk about the solutions rather than just keep fighting and protesting creating more problems.
To me, it looks like you are not ready for constructive thinking. I don’t want to fight or argue further.

I Replied >>

im not against Women, and we fight aginst only those who misuse laws to harass;
for us, men its ok to go to jail, we dont mind, but along with us, it drags our old aged parents and married sisters along with their breastfed babies too.
and as you wrote, many true cases ignored because of your own kind who misuse such laws.
and we have female members in MyNation Foundation who fight for their broters, and Sisters who are harassed by their husband families.
we fight because government is not ready to listen to make laws gender equal because feminists blocks them and make money out of other women problems.
they get more than 7 crore grant every year, if you ask them where that money goes, they have no answer but reports of harassment of women is not decreased either.
go to any women forum, and ask them, and see what they will advice, no need to say, they will advice you to file false case on her husband family only.
so it is not us, men to change. it is your own kind to think, you are not subordinate but you want equal status and ready to take equal responsibility too.

She replied. >>

Please go ahead and fight. Neither will you nor your old aged parents, married sisters and their breastfed babies will have peace!!!
I was talking for peaceful resolution.

And what do you mean by “own kind”? I’m a well-educated NRI working girl. I have seen quite a few of my friends suffering without having filed any 498a cases. Are your organizations accounting for that suffering? Their husbands have harassed, divorced and married another girl while the poor girls are suffering without being able to prove. And these friends of mine are also well-educated NRI working girls!!! It’s amounting to so much that they are losing interest in their career, getting frustrated and depressed for the injustice meted by men. Well, they approached their mother-in-law, father-in-law, sister-in-law and everyone they could to save the relationship, but male-ego wouldn’t let any of them hear the girl’s voice. Why does the girl complain if she’s well-treated in a family? I’m not a feminist in any sense.

What do you mean by misuse? I read your link and the Karan Thappar’s interview with Renuka Choudhary. The man was asking if calling the girl’s relative “ass” is abuse. Why not? Would a man take if a woman calls any of his relatives(his mother, father or sister) “ass”!!! More than 75% of Indian men would immediately start a big fight. While the same men expect women to shut their mouths. Men can be sarcastic, but women cannot!!! And often these men just don’t say it once, they make such repeated sarcastic comments repeatedly.

Female members in your organizations is the root cause of the entire problem. These women should have empathized with other women. Is there even a single man in women’s organizations? Do men really come forward to fight for women’s issues. Unfortunately, NO. Then why should women members fight for your organization. That is only because you are their son or brother. So, it’s a man who divides women. But, never did a woman try to divide men. Such great men you all are!!! Hats off for your intelligence!!!

By the way do you know that there is a difference between equality and equal dignity.
Equality is a static process. It talks about laws, rules, rights, etc. These are well-defined.
Equal dignity is a dynamic process. All of us need to adapt depending on the circumstances. Each incident teaches us how we should treat the other person.
Yes, fighting may be a solution for equality but not equal dignity. But what is essential for you, me and for the generations to come is equal dignity not equality. In all my communication, I’m maintaining equal dignity but unfortunately you are not.

Please provide me links for women’s forums where they discuss about men in such caustic tone. I’ll definitely raise my concerns if they are just bitching against men without concrete results. I could find only these anti-women forums, but not women forums. This itself proves how much male-dominated our society is. And such an organization which keeps talking negatively of women fights for gender equality. Isn’t it ridiculous? Gender equality means you have to be unbiased. You have to empathize with hundreds of other women who are truly suffering (instead of branding every case as false). That’s probably the reason no legislation is happening after reading your blogs, articles, caustic comments, etc. Try to be unbiased first.

Men – you need to wake up. Women cannot bring the change without men’s support. And the change that you are requesting is incorrect. Fight for women issues too. As I said, I’m not saying all women are good. But at the same time you need to understand whatever you are writing about women, the same qualities could be there in men too. And to be honest since our society has been over the years male-dominated, the qualities that you write in your blogs about women (greedy, lies before marriage, infidelity, control, asking to leave man’s siblings/parents) are actually more common among men. Please don’t think about your specific case.
Think bigger and stop this narrow thinking.

Our mothers and grand mothers never would have filed these cases. More of these cases are being filed by women only because women have changed.
What is missing is – men’s change!!! This is the harsh reality for all the men folks. If you want women to change more and more, then there will be no institution of marriage, no bright future for the kids, no trust, no love and nothing in the society. This is what happened in westernized countries and that’s the reason for divorce rate being 50% and hardly any kids stay with parents after they turn 16. Is this what you want Indian society to be like? Whether you want it or not, if you continue to fight like this without finding solution, this is what will happen. It’s your choice – whether you want to change your mind and then try to change your friends mind and so on.

I’m not sure of your background and if all this even makes sense. I think I’m trying to do my bit for a better society. I’m neither a supporter of organizations like you nor of feminist organizations. That’s the reason I’m trying to reach both kind of organizations. There are a few like-minded people like me and among them there are a few men too. We’ll see what we can do!! We might fail because of your and feminists fights, but please don’t bother about us. You continue with your fight against the woman who has harassed you, poor old-aged parents, married sisters with breast-fed babies. After your fight is over and she eventually gives up or compromises (even though it might not be false), I hope you would continue to help your other male friends. Otherwise, you would be branded as selfish, isn’t it?

Wish you the very best.

63 thoughts on “Indian Women Love to see husband family harassed

  1. You are absolutly right;

    As you say, “More of these cases are being filed by women only because women have changed.
    ” todays indian women are influenced by western faminism, they want freedom, and no one should question them and they know very well even husband catch them red handed with their lover, they get maitenance, even they are educated and working also they ask for maitenance,even divorce was their fault.

  2. Madam; please visit ncw/wcd websites and see how many works for then in thier contact us page and dont forget to show how many women work for such men organisation;…?
    NONE
    coz there is not a single organisation to fight for men, and mens rights.
    Coz Indian men have no rights at all.

    Even Dogs have ministry.

  3. Hello Miss,

    Go and visit all dance clubs and pubs in India as well as in western countries that how Indian women act and shows their real flavor of attitude and behavior.

    Indian male society is not dominated, Indian women it self acquired those qualities to get benefits from their husbands, sons and brothers and to rule family, which Indian male society accepted in the name of kind and respect. But today due to economic hardship, Indian male society started educating to women to support their family for better life but where as these educated women want dual benefits i.e. their own earned money and all benefits from their husbands, sons and brothers.

    Going one step forward, some of NRI women become all most like western women which i feel shame to explain here. So, basically women need to have change. i.e. choose either one of benefit.

    1. Be like a Indian wife and get all benefits from your husband as Indian tradition follows and become an ideal daughter, ideal sister, ideal wife, ideal daughter-in-law, ideal mother, ideal mother-in-law and an ideal grand mother. which is a COMPLETE FAMILY and meaning for your life.

    (OR)

    2. Be like a modern, educated and independent women, Get marriage in westernized way with prenuptial agreement and financially maintain yourself or beg your husband to maintain you or wear slut dress to have a new commercial partner for every hour and live life like a queen of the world till your vagina becomes loose. After that adopt kids from orphanage and stay in old age home.

    After going through this process, educate your experience with your friends, neighbors and communities. WHICH IS SOLUTION FOR THESE MAJORITY OF MATRIMONIAL DISPUTES.

    GENDER EQUALITY IN ALL ASPECTS:
    If there is WCD ministry then there should be Men Development Ministry.
    If there is 498a then there should be 498b
    If there is Female Protection DV Act then there should be Male Protection DV Act
    If there is CrPC 125 (Maintenance to Estranged Wife) then there should be CrPC 125 (Maintenance to suffering Husband)

  4. Have posted the same in your site.. 
    My points are inline: =>
    Please go ahead and fight. Neither will you nor your old aged parents, married sisters and their breastfed babies will have peace!!!I was talking for peaceful resolution.And what do you mean by “own kind”? I’m a well-educated NRI working girl. I have seen quite a few of my friends suffering without having filed any 498a cases. Are your organizations accounting for that suffering? Their husbands have harassed, divorced and married another girl while the poor girls are suffering without being able to prove. And these friends of mine are also well-educated NRI working girls!!! It’s amounting to so much that they are losing interest in their career, getting frustrated and depressed for the injustice meted by men. Well, they approached their mother-in-law, father-in-law, sister-in-law and everyone they could to save the relationship, but male-ego wouldn’t let any of them hear the girl’s voice. Why does the girl complain if she’s well-treated in a family? I’m not a feminist in any sense.MD: Girls when they are highly educated have little or no tolerance.. … why can’t the educated girls take a balance. Balance is the true love… In a true love, assuming wives truly love their husband and vice versa after marriage.. there is no question for anyone’s ego .. What do you mean by misuse? I read your link and the Karan Thappar’s interview with Renuka Choudhary. The man was asking if calling the girl’s relative “ass” is abuse. Why not? Would a man take if a woman calls any of his relatives(his mother, father or sister) “ass”!!! More than 75% of Indian men would immediately start a big fight. While the same men expect women to shut their mouths. Men can be sarcastic, but women cannot!!! And often these men just don’t say it once, they make such repeated sarcastic comments repeatedly.

    MD: In a married life, abusing elders of any relation is disrespect. There are so many ways to diffuse difficult situations and women know this far better than men ..  In the traditional past India, and as history always showcased, it is always the women who is the most talented in handling social situations but does it in such a way that her husband gets all the due credits.. Expecting a man to be very wise in all social situations is very foolish … only politicians, lawyers can do that… most honest guys are not good at that. 
    Female members in your organizations is the root cause of the entire problem. These women should have empathized with other women. Is there even a single man in women’s organizations? Do men really come forward to fight for women’s issues. Unfortunately, NO. Then why should women members fight for your organization. That is only because you are their son or brother. So, it’s a man who divides women. But, never did a woman try to divide men. Such great men you all are!!! Hats off for your intelligence!!!
    MD: Wow… a double standard.. … the same issue exists for men too… why can’t the men sympathise with the fellow men who are falsely fabricated in 498a and empathise with them.. its because the 498a girl is their sister or daughter … why does all male judge, inspectors and even this 498a which says that any women if she reports harassment – means a FIR needs to be registered without even a proper investigation…. 
    By the way do you know that there is a difference between equality and equal dignity.Equality is a static process. It talks about laws, rules, rights, etc. These are well-defined.Equal dignity is a dynamic process. All of us need to adapt depending on the circumstances. Each incident teaches us how we should treat the other person.Yes, fighting may be a solution for equality but not equal dignity. But what is essential for you, me and for the generations to come is equal dignity not equality. In all my communication, I’m maintaining equal dignity but unfortunately you are not.
    MD: Wow… a double standard again.. … Presenting a conflicting view in this democratic country does not mean in-equal diginity… in that way.. Indian can argue that you are not providing equal diginity to him in the way you are articulating your points .. .

    Please provide me links for women’s forums where they discuss about men in such caustic tone. I’ll definitely raise my concerns if they are just bitching against men without concrete results. I could find only these anti-women forums, but not women forums. This itself proves how much male-dominated our society is. And such an organization which keeps talking negatively of women fights for gender equality. Isn’t it ridiculous? Gender equality means you have to be unbiased. You have to empathize with hundreds of other women who are truly suffering (instead of branding every case as false). That’s probably the reason no legislation is happening after reading your blogs, articles, caustic comments, etc. Try to be unbiased first.
    MD: Are you not watching news, tv shows, movies…everything just shows how men are so cruel .. in how many movies the villains are women compared to men? be unbiased first 🙂

    Men – you need to wake up. Women cannot bring the change without men’s support. And the change that you are requesting is incorrect. Fight for women issues too. As I said, I’m not saying all women are good. But at the same time you need to understand whatever you are writing about women, the same qualities could be there in men too. And to be honest since our society has been over the years male-dominated, the qualities that you write in your blogs about women (greedy, lies before marriage, infidelity, control, asking to leave man’s siblings/parents) are actually more common among men. Please don’t think about your specific case.Think bigger and stop this narrow thinking.
    MD: there is only 2% conviction in this case – you better wake up ! Most women need to understand what is harassment and what is injustice…. In a rented house, most of the married working woman ask their husbands to pay the rent, pay the mortgage fees,  while they use all their salary for buying themselves make-up sets, jewelery, etc .. .Is this equality?  

    Our mothers and grand mothers never would have filed these cases. More of these cases are being filed by women only because women have changed.What is missing is – men’s change!!! This is the harsh reality for all the men folks. If you want women to change more and more, then there will be no institution of marriage, no bright future for the kids, no trust, no love and nothing in the society. This is what happened in westernized countries and that’s the reason for divorce rate being 50% and hardly any kids stay with parents after they turn 16. Is this what you want Indian society to be like? Whether you want it or not, if you continue to fight like this without finding solution, this is what will happen. It’s your choice – whether you want to change your mind and then try to change your friends mind and so on.

    MD: Wow, again… first you trust and then talk about whether your husband trusts you or not…. when you start biased – there is no end to it.. Men are happy to have live-in relations… but who is losing here… its the woman…..Man can walk-away anytime far better than an husband who would like to walk-off from his wife… I hope you are intelligent enough to understand… .Having said that, its a rarity for a man to walk off from a loving wife or girlfriend and with kids.. 
    By the way, the above para shows you are a feminist .. 
    I’m not sure of your background and if all this even makes sense. I think I’m trying to do my bit for a better society. I’m neither a supporter of organizations like you nor of feminist organizations. That’s the reason I’m trying to reach both kind of organizations. There are a few like-minded people like me and among them there are a few men too. We’ll see what we can do!! We might fail because of your and feminists fights, but please don’t bother about us. You continue with your fight against the woman who has harassed you, poor old-aged parents, married sisters with breast-fed babies. After your fight is over and she eventually gives up or compromises (even though it might not be false), I hope you would continue to help your other male friends. Otherwise, you would be branded as selfish, isn’t it?
    Wish you the very best.
    MD: Wow again.. when you talk foolishly none can help you..I’m sad for you – being highly educated still very immature…  see the statistics… 2% conviction… for 2% conviction, you want an average family of 5 to suffer humiliation, career loss, etc for an average 4 years.. what kind of education did you get? Is this the India Gandhi fighted for?  498a is not the forum for your qualms… if you are dissatisfied with your husband, divorce him .. move on in life…. fyi – there are many husbands who are dissatisfied by their wife having illicit relations, etc… DV is a civil case in US and all western countries… unlike India which treats it criminal.. Divorce in its own way brings enough trouble.. nothing extra required. 
    Its like this… if you are living in Spain and you are not happy about McDonald’s american fast food.. you just dont take the food there… You should not go and burn McDonald’s just because you dont like it… 498a just does that… Hence its legal terrorism… 

    Cheers,
    MD

  5. @Taj

    Your comment really bothers me so much. How many men and women in this organization really approve your comment? If it’s even 1%, then it’s the scariest feeling I have about the future of our children.

    Well, I know your mother and sister are of the first kind. And I hope you would raise your daughter also as the first kind. I guess your son will also marry a girl of the first kind. Now the question is:
    1. Are you going to impart any education to your daughter? May be not because she has to be of the first kind, isn’t it?
    2. Let’s assume you are for gender equality and you do provide good education for your daughter. Let’s also assume she unfortunately outshines in her studies and is the topper of the state or university, cracks IIT-JEE and gets into Indian Institute of Technology. She would pass out from the premier institutions of our country, but since you don’t want her to be independent, will you ask her to sit at home? May be yes because she has to be of the first kind.
    3. Let’s assume you are for gender quality again and her do a job. And then she gets an onsite job in USA. Since you love your daughter so much and are so concerned about her safety and security in the bad “woman world” out there, that you find a suitable alliance and send her to the western country.

    Now is it okay if anyone calls your daughter a slut and that she’s living life like a queen of the world till her vagina becomes loose. Please mind your language. Did I make any offending remarks against men?

    I understand you are trying to keep the mouth of a girl shut. Now you only tell what I should call you? What respect do you think women will have about you? Please show the same comment to your mother, sister and/or daughter. If I have to talk about men the way you are talking about women, I can go to any extreme lengths. That neither serves your purpose nor my purpose.
    I can guess why you are trying to provoke, but again that’s also least of my concerns.

    Do you know religious fanatists? They go to any extremes for the sake of the religion. They even kill innocent people. These organizations seem like that. The way you all are talking isn’t good in any way for anyone. I might respond for few days and give up, but that’s not the solution again.

    The solution is not to instigate men against women. Fighting for/against laws is never ending process. The IDEAL solution is for men and women to work in coordination. You people are too deep into your specific issues that you are not able to think about anyone else. I was trying to see if men and women can work in coordination, but based on your inputs it appears that none of you are interested. Not even a single person is coming forward with a positive tone!!! This is definitely not what I expected from people who have been indeed deceived and hurt by a “false” case.
    Anyways…

  6. @MD:

    My responses to your analysis:
    1. It’s wrong to claim that highly educated women have little or no tolerance. So, the question is what is your definition of tolerance? Can you please give me a few examples of what tolerance is between a husband and a wife? We can help the society understand what tolerance is. You tell me how a woman should react to a specific incident and I’ll tell you how a man should react to a similar incident. An open discussion – no ill or demeaning comments!!! Let’s be dignified in our tones.

    2. “Balance is the true love”. No doubt about that. But, is this the responsibility of wife alone? Why should only educated wife take the balance? Does a husband not have any role in maintaining this balance?

    3. I appreciate your comment saying disrespect to either side is incorrect. Even traditionally not all women could handle social solutions aptly. Still, they continued to keep silent because they were dependent on a man. Well, even if we accept that they indeed handled, then her job was only to handle social situations, isn’t it? Don’t you think her job is much more complicated now with work, household chores and kids? Since she is sharing financial responsibility of the household, don’t you think man has to share the responsibility of sharing social situations too. Again, every task has to be mutually agreed upon these days.

    4. I inquired a few women’s organizations about any men fighting for their issues and surprisingly it’s none. When Mr. Crusader mentioned that there are even women in our organization, I just reminded him that they are no men in women’s organizations. I was not trying to maintain any double standard there. Are you saying there should be only woman judges and woman police officers? Further, a mother and a sister is different from a father and a brother. The reason being the wife has to interact more with a mother-in-law and sister-in-law rather than a husband interacting with father-in-law and brother-in-law. That’s because a girl is given away in marriage to a different family and there lies some amount of responsibility on mothers and sisters of husband.

    5. Coming to equal dignity, whenever I’m stating a point, I’m trying to convince. I even stated not all women may be right. I’m just saying don’t make it look like most of the woman are wrong. This is what I’m trying to correct. Instead of saying 100% false, had you said 50-50, I would have appreciated. Please re-read Indians tone and my tone. I was trying to convince to each of the points raised by him. Instead of trying to convince me back by approval or disapproval logically, he again states the same thing. Well, in that sense your mail has maintained that equal dignity.

    6. I can’t talk much about the media because I don’t approve their tactics to get hits or higher ratings. However, I did watch a few serials where the villians are women 🙂 Did you ever watch Ekta Kapoor’s serials? Leaving about these cases between husband and wife, don’t you think it’s generally men who commit the crime. Again, please be unbiased.

    7. About rented house, mortgage, etc – good that you brought this point. Why should the woman earn in the first place? Isn’t she taking this extra burden for a good lifestyle for the entire family? Does she spend her entire salary on make-up sets, jewellery, etc? Is it not woman who are supposed to deck themselves with make-up and jewellery? Even in the olden days when women never earned or contributed to rent or mortgage, they decked up with jewellery brought out of their husband’s salary.
    Well, do you ever realize that women do something which men don’t? And that’s the basis of all of our existence today. For bearing the child in her womb for 9 months, can’t we allow her to deck herself and not pay the mortgage? When need arises wouldn’t she give the money for children’s education or anything that both decide to do together.
    If we talk about equality in every matter (even in financial matters about women’s contribution, etc), what characteristic of man can we use to neutralize the motherhood of a woman?

    8. I’m not sure what part you found feminist. Well, it’s probably asking men to change!!! Did I make specific references to anyone in this group. There has to be mutual trust between both of the husband and wife – not who is first and who is second.
    Men are happy to have live-in relations with whom? If it’s another dignified women, I guess you have the answer to your statement about women being loser. If it’s otherwise, then I have no comments. Are you not being anti-woman by saying “woman is the loser”? See, your ego how much ever you tried did come out. This attitude of men to think that women are the losers if they walk off is the cause of problems. Aren’t both man and woman the losers?

    9. Finally…. So, you think I’m foolish and immature in asking you to work in coordination for a better society. Well, I’ll say you are highly intelligent. Now, would you please educate me on what Mahatma Gandhi fought for? I thought he fought for our independence from British. Maybe I’m wrong. Probably he fought for men against women!!! To understand that I just googled Gandhi and women and this is what I got.
    – Woman is more fitted than man to make exploration and take bolder action in nonviolence.
    – There is no occasion for women to consider themselves subordinate or inferior to man.
    – Woman is the companion of man, gifted with equal mental capacity.
    – If by strength is meant moral power, then woman is immeasurably man’s superior.
    – If nonviolence is the law of our being, the future is with women.
    – Woman, I hold, is the personification of self-sacrifice, but unfortunately today she does not realize what tremendous advantage she has over man.

    Again, personal criticism. Why do you judge immediately? So, are you saying if husband and wife are not happy, they should get divorced and move on? Are you saying there shouldn’t be any mediation or help to save the institution of marriage in our country? Most of the couples are dissatisfied – so should we follow western countries and increase the divorce rate? What about our culture and our children? It seems there is no concept of arranged marriage in western countries? Should we go this route?

    Your MyNation Foundation says “We Speak The TRUTH, Do you Dare”. I’m for the TRUTH, please clarify to an immature and foolish girl like me.

  7. can you show me where its written “We Speak The TRUTH, Do you Dare” ?

  8. @SS Singh
    The person who posted this article had it in his signature. I thought it was this organization’s motto. It was later clarified that it’s the motto of some other organization.
    Well, your motto is no different either “TRUTH IS OUT HERE”.

    Everyone, including me, is in search for The TRUTH.

  9. Madam; can you tell me what are the responsibilities of a Married Indian women towards her family (ie : her husband and children not her mother and siblings) as a wife and as a daughter in law to her in laws.
    and dont forget to write man responsibilities too, as you think.
    lets see who missed what from other readers.

  10. yea truth is out here.
    whatever truth you think is not truth for me vise versa
    so moral of the story you will never find truth.

  11. @Sriganesh

    I would say married woman’s responsibilities are pretty much the same as a married man’s responsibilities.

    1. Both of them should treat each other with mutual love and respect.
    2. Both of them should respect each others family members.
    3. Both of them should have enough freedom to do whatever help they want to do for their parents, brothers and sisters.
    4. Neither of them should isolate the other from the family they’ve grown up in since birth for 20-30 years.
    5. Neither of them should fight on financial issues and should be responsible for whatever they are spending. A woman doesn’t have to work only to prove to a man that she is equal. And a man should help a working in whatever possible way he can.
    6. If there are any disputes between husband and wife, they should try to resolve among themselves. If they cannot be resolved, family members from either side should be involved. Even if they cannot be resolved, friends and relatives should be involved. Even then if they are not resolved, some authoritative organization should be involved who are unbiased and fighting for gender equality and equal dignity and who can give their opinion. How to do this is what we need to work on collectively. I want you all to provide more suggestions or discussions on such topics.

    Bottom-line : In present days and going forward, anyone should think this before doing or saying anything to anyone else: “If the other person did/said this to me, will I feel bad? If yes, I should restrain from doing/saying.” The 2 people involved can be married couples, parent and child, friends or anyone else. There still might be cases where both of them do out of anger and vengeance. That’s when both need to take a step back and think through the solution. Being adamant and blaming doesn’t solve anything anytime. Accountability of one’s own actions, compromise and forgiveness are what are required for peaceful relationships.

    Again, there might be both bad women and bad men. “Bad” itself needs to be gender neutral.

    There definitely might be somethings which I might have missed. Please add to it, but it wouldn’t serve any purpose if you just ridicule my opinion or brush it off saying I’m being foolish and immature.

  12. More comments from Taj in my email!!!

    Hello Sushma,

    Be note that i used ‘slut’ word for “some of women” only, did you noticed that?
    When women organizations conducted “Slut Walk” in New Delhi, why you were not there to distribute knowledge?

    I believe no one has joined in this group, who really committed the offense and demanded for dowry. Mostly no men will come forward to co-ordinate with women since he and his family falsely implicated through biased dowry laws.

    Concerning kids future, if child custody law changed then no women want to keep kids with her since no money she is going to extort from husband and husband’s family. Please be note that this statement is applicable only to those women who really misused biased laws and blackmailed to their husbands and husband’s families.

    We are simply not commenting on women, we are just commenting on particular target group of women, who are really misusing the gender biased laws to harass husband and husband’s family. Be note that we are also human being and we also have mothers, sisters and daughters etc.

    I hope you understand the situation. Please don’t continue this email thread further because you will realize the pain of these false cases when you go through this mental agony.

    Bye.

  13. Im posting what Sushma wrote to @Taj, she posted his mail comments but forgot her own.
    Here is what she wrote.


    Good!!! I appreciate the change in your tone!!!
    I’m not as well-versed about women organizations and their activities like “Slut Walk”. Neither am I well-versed about organizations like you and your activities. And I can’t be everywhere to distribute the knowledge. I’m just trying to make a beginning for a better society – not against you nor women’s organizations.
    I’m also not adamantly or confidently saying that members of these organizations have committed any offense and demanded dowry. All that I’m seeking is a solution to harmony between men and women. Are you saying no men from these organizations will come forward to co-ordinate with women for a peaceful resolution regardless of it being true or false? Unfortunately there will be loop holes in laws everywhere in the whole world. Unfortunately people(both women and men) are intelligent or rather cunning to find such loop holes. That’s the reason we need to give up our fight against laws and do something which will bring out the TRUTH. This is all the more required especially for fights between men and women.
    Regarding child custody law, can you please let me know your opinion? If you think a mother will give up her child because she is not getting any child support, then it’s wrong. Again, there might be few women, but that is very negligible percentage. Don’t you think husband has any moral responsibility for the child?
    Yes, I understand you are targeting only a section (very negligible section) of women. And it’s unfortunate that section of women wouldn’t even probably read your comments or articles against them and wouldn’t even see your protests or activities. So, what purpose is this solving? Let me tell you the TRUTH. It’s causing more damage to families and our children – the future generation!!! With these comments you are agonizing larger section (the great majority) of women who actually read your articles. With these articles and protests, you are creating more havoc and more stress to men and women’s family. Above all you are encouraging or instigating even the 50% of the husbands to continue harassing their wives. These 50% of husbands (who are not anyone from your organizations) are becoming very bold and fearless about any laws!!! It’s as good as not being there, but then is there a guarantee things will get better without any law or changed laws. I personally think it wouldn’t. The change has to come from within, not from outside. The change has to come in me, you, 50% of bad wives and 50% of bad husbands!!! Don’t you think it’s fair enough?
    Laws have been enforced for a reason. It’s being misused by a few women. The misuse itself is being misused by a few men. And it goes on and on. Where is the end?
    I see the pain of these false cases and that’s the reason I’m able to talk unbiased. It’s just that you don’t see the mental agony of the reason for such laws and what’s happening by your protests/activities/instigation against the laws!!! When you can become unbiased and talk in favor of the 50% of women who are indeed suffering, then more and more women will understand your mental agony. Will any women even talk if you use the tone you used earlier? Again accountability, compromise and forgiveness (in the same order) is required for harmony in life, especially between husband and wife. And that’s what we all should strive instead of draining our time and energy fighting.
    ~Sushma

  14. Another organization!!!Looks like I’ll be reaching men’s organizations more than women’s organizations :)There is not even a single well-maintained site like this for women – do you think women should start it? 
    I would say NO. Because I know what would happen – more and more differences, more ill feelings and more trouble.But, I’m really very concerned to know about my Indian brothers thinking about woman. It definitely needs a change, but not sure how?

  15. Elaborate please!!! Because I’m not smart enough to understand the underlying meaning of such sarcastic comments.Are you trying to tell me something?

  16. you said u r an NRIand also wrote in below mail”I’m really very concerned to know about my Indian brothers thinking about woman”you have to be in their shoes to know what they think, not from SF.thats what i mean.is it SARcastic ?

  17. I appreciate your intelligence to do research on where I live. Based on your research, how confident are you that I’m indeed in SF?And we are communicating so nicely, efficiently and immediately!!! Does it matter where I stay? Isn’t this beauty of internet?I can stand in your shoes from anywhere in the world, isn’t it? Do you think I can come to each one of your homes to literally stand in your shoes?How many of you ever made effort to stand in the shoes of women who are indeed suffering?
    Why not change roles – you stand in women’s shoes and we’ll stand in men’s shoes to know what they think? I’m making my effort to stand in men’s shoes. Please do make an effort to stand in women’s shoes.Even you don’t take my comments as sarcastic. I support harassed men, but at the same time I want these men to support harassed women.Because only the person being harassed knows the pain of other harassed person. That’s the reason I’m trying to reach you.
    ~Sushma

  18. Know your enemy before you attack.
    thats how ISARAEL won 1967 war.
    so we have same policy too.

    When you tell a women be in my shoes to know me and she will wear men shoe to know, how it feel… thats what you wrote. you can wear men shoes, but we cannt…
    coz its too small haha…..
    i mean to say or men say, be in my place and know
    how it feel when you are accused and charged for something you never imagine, with false case.
    Stabing on your back, bring police home by a person who slept with you on your bed, had food in same plate
    but you never know all this…
    as per your own word only harassed person know how it feel.
    and you are never harassed……

  19. Hello Taj,
    i think you have made it more clear to Sushma who seem to herself gone extreme to belive you ment ‘all Women’ in general completely not accouting the context of discussion in this forum. 
    Sushma, this is the forum you would find only victems of misuse of law by the women, so it goes without saying and that the women has used uneticle ways to victimise men and from that context Taj refers to these women only. Had she said the same in a general forum not pertaining to this missue of law against women, i am sure she would have for sure explicitly made it very clear who she ment as slut. Very naive of you. 
    if the forum was about men harrssing innocent wifes/women, Men are rapist etc … , here men are those men who harasses a innocent women.:-)
    bye

  20. Hi Bunty Ali,

    Thanks for saying that “atleast 2%” of women are indeed good!!! This makes me feel that you put me into the category of your mothers, sisters and daughters. Thank God!!!The moment I read Taj’s comments(supposedly a “she”) I felt being torn apart. It’s unbelievable that it’s a SHE who wrote those comments!!! Yes, I’m very naive and never imagined women, how much ever a sister or mother she is, can write like that. Whatever it is, it’s not good to make so cheap comments about women. And this he posted in response to unbiased comments from me. If you have anger, mould it in a better, constructive way, not destructive way!!! That’s the truth of a peaceful and happy life any religion teaches.

    Do read my response to Taj’s clarification. I want your organization to be unbiased and support women too. You are being harassed by a woman and someone else are being harassed by men. Harassment is common. I thought instead of complaining against the men who harass, if I instead reach to men who are being harassed, my voice will be heard better. Don’t you agree? Since harassment is common, we all should work together for harass-free society. Please don’t isolate a suffering woman in your struggle against woman.

    By the way, is there a way to add me to your yahoo groups? Because all my emails to the members in cc list bounce back. I think it would be better to have a larger audience.

    Best Regards,
    Sushma

  21. Hi Sushma,  
    i am new to this forum and my first comment was what i wrote to you. I myself wasnt sure if you got the response until i just heard back from you. Thanks for your response. I dont know how to add i will try, but until then you have my email id just keep me copied or mail me or in yahoo IM with same ID.
    No offence to you or praises to Taj, i do agree with your point as well to say all harassed men and women should coperate to help each other.By the way, i am suspecting trouble from my wife so very new to all this.

    I wish she just comes back and we live happy like before.

  22. Hello Sushma, 
    You will not be aware when they conduct “Slut Walks” in national capital city!You will not be aware when Supreme Court says that 498a is a Legal Terrorism!You will not be aware when Supreme Court recommended Govt to amend dowry law in various judgements!You will not be aware when W.C.D ministry itself accepts that there is heavy misuse of dowry laws!You will not be aware when Law commission itself accepted that there is heavy misuse in dowry laws!You will not be aware when US embassies circulates notices that 498a and dowry cases are false and negligible!You will not be aware when N.C.B reports says that 98% of dowry cases are false (Negligible) You will not be aware when N.C.B reports says that Men suicide rates are higher than women?You will not be aware various health reports says that Men heart attack deaths are higher than women?Why you are not daring to join hands with SIFF to fight and abolish 498a and dowry laws. Since Govt crime reports itself says that there 98% false cases and can be neglected. As per your below email 98% of false cases can be neglected and 2% of convictions have to retain dowry and biased laws.
    For your kind information, I did not change my tone, the mistake is you did not red my email properly. If father have not taken care of his kids then today you won’t be seeing the world’s best and largest family system in India.
    Ask yourself:1. Will you / did you harass to your sister-in-law?2. Will your / did your brother harass to his sister-in-law?3. Will you / did you harass to your daughter-in-law?4. Will your / did your father harass to his daughter-in-law?5. Will your / did your mother harass to her daughter-in-law?6. Will your / did your brother harass to his wife?7. Will your / did your cousin harass to his/her sister-in-law?8. Will your / did your father neglect you to look after at your well being, education, career and life?9. Will you / did you demand for dowry while getting married to your brother?10. Will you / did you demand for dowry while getting married to your son?
    Your answers to above TEN questions, will give you answer what to do for solution. A greedy woman has to think thrice before running to police station regarding kids and their future. We are fathers always think about kids well being, future and pays child maintenance irrespective of our mental and financial conditions that’s what men heart attack death ratio is huge in India.
    Sushma, you won’t understand our pain and mental agony what we are going through, some time we feel better to have a street prostitute in our life as a wife than these greedy and scrupulous 498a women – “Legal Terrorist”.
    Finally, i would recommend you to understand the situation of this group members, their mental state of mind, their mental agony, harassment that we are going through and facts from various Govt dept and agencies. And then you can write your comments and resolution to have peace and harmony among men and women.
    Till then bye…

  23. Cool!!! 
    My heartfelt wish that your wife indeed comes back and you both along with your children live happily like before and ever after.

    I’m happy that you agree that men harassed by women and women harassed by me should cooperate to help each other.
    Thank you!! Looking forward to communicate more.Wish you the very best on a successful reunion with your wife!!

    ~Sushma

  24. What matters now is the solution? Not what who said what.To reduce these false cases, I have a proposal. Let me know what you all think.

    Proper investigation should be done immediately after the complaint is lodged by a woman.
    No arrests should happen to husband and his family. However, if the husband and family are not available for investigation, what shall we do? Shall we allow issuance of lookout notices by “FOUND MISSING” ads in news papers and TVs.

    As always, I’m open to any other suggestions.

    ~Sushma

  25. Sushma, 
    Can you give us the brief about your self? What are you? Who you are? Where are you from? And Why you are here?

    After lodging FIR, What kind of investigation you will do since most of investigation agencies tried extract their part from men OR try for mutual settlement with X amount money to get their share.

    While getting married you won’t involve police then why do you want involve police while having martial disputes?

    Straight solutions are:
    1. During wedding have a prenuptial agreement and after marriage if both are having martial disputes then simply dissolve the marriage as per prenuptial agreement. Prenuptial agreement also include about kids and kids future etc.
    2. Abolish dowry laws and make gender equal laws. (Refer spouse instead of wife or husband)
    3. Take equal cognizance from wife and husband including their families.
    4. Punish to false complainant along with list of witnesses with same punishment.

    Above 4 solutions, drastically reduces false complaints, saves lot of citizens tax paid money. 

    Did you know 99% of complaints says that X amount of dowry is given at the time of marriage, Then why they did not lodge a complaint at the time of marriage itself? Because they did not given any dowry that’s what they did not lodged any complaint.
    Most of greedy women will not agree for that since they cannot be succeed in their extort game plan.

    Thanks.

  26. Let me tell you Sushma that the conviction rate itself answers ur query.

    Also, many of the victims of misuse of 498a and other cases related to Matrimonial bowed down only becoz of blackcoat people who also were part of harassment. This was through huge fees and also trying to settle the issue by paying huge ali monies. 498a and other related cases was given big response as it is a bread & butter for all bklys……..

    The real harassed lady rather than women is long way behind….I think there is a real target for u and other feminist organisations to look into rather than debating on use or misuse.Hope u should look back in history as INDIA is land of god….we are know to the ladies like Sita, savitri, meera etc etc etc. But at the same time we are known to shurpnaka, holika, and so on……And we at SIF are not against ladies like sitas but like shurpnaka…

    Hope its clear now.
    Hope u reply…..

    Regards,
    Amol K

  27. And here’s my reply to you.

    Conviction rate is never an answer. Did you hear about the case of Jessica Lal? There was even a movie made out of it “No one killed Jessica”.It being a high profile case got the media attention for the murder. Originally the person who murdered was not convicted. So, can conviction rate be taken as the answer? Only a few cases do get conviction assuming everyone is honest. In the case of Jessica, media played a major role. The entire nation came forward to support the truth and only then justice was meted.

    Do you have the statistics of women in mortuaries? None of them filed false cases. Do you have statistics of how long a case takes to trial? Do you have the statistics on what happens to these false cases after compromised? This law is for women to avoid deaths. This law is for women who constantly are harassed by men. This law is for the safety and security of such women who have the support of majority of husband’s relatives. This law is not for women who just file cases to extract money. And there is no need for you to give money to a woman. When there is no fault from your side, why should you give money to the woman. I don’t think you are responsible for her re-marriage. However, you are responsible for the financial security of your child.

    I agree you are against only Surpanaks and not Sitas. BTW, the definition of Sita, Savitri and Meera should also change atleast a little bit. All woman have to be Sitas, Savitris, etc in character, but men can’t expect his wife to agree/abide to everything. I read the following in a book on raising children:”It is not important whether parents agree. They need only agree about one thing i.e. it is acceptable to disagree. Only when their parents experience each others differences as wrong, do children become insecure.”

    As I said again, men harassed by women and women harassed by men should work in coordination.

    Hope you agree.
    Best Regards,
    Sushma

  28. Only Solution for False 498A is

    Should be finished in one Year.
    Double punishment for false case than guilty of 498A.
    damage / defamation charges against misuser of law.
    Punishment for giving Dowry and not reporting

  29. You will not be aware when they conduct “Slut Walks” in national capital city!
    [Sushma] Yes, I agree. I was not even aware about so many kind of organizations and how they are demeaning woman without understanding there atleast 50% good woman.

    You will not be aware when Supreme Court says that 498a is a Legal Terrorism!
    [Sushma] I never said I’m supporting every bit of 498a and if Supreme Court has said it, it has to be true. Why do you think I’m contradicting it?

    You will not be aware when Supreme Court recommended Govt to amend dowry law in various judgements!
    [Sushma] Dowry is not the only issue. Emotional abuse is a bigger issue. And if this emotional abuse is for dowry, it is the worst. How many of you hear know that 498a is not only about dowry. It is about cruelty against married women.
    You will not be aware when W.C.D ministry itself accepts that there is heavy misuse of dowry laws!
    You will not be aware when Law commission itself accepted that there is heavy misuse in dowry laws!
    You will not be aware when US embassies circulates notices that 498a and dowry cases are false and negligible!
    You will not be aware when N.C.B reports says that 98% of dowry cases are false (Negligible)
    You will not be aware when N.C.B reports says that Men suicide rates are higher than women?
    You will not be aware various health reports says that Men heart attack deaths are higher than women?
    [Sushma] It doesn’t really matter to me who says what. All that matters is whether whoever saying so many things, is able to do anything about it. Anyone can say anything – so what? We want solutions and not problems for a better society where men, women and children are all happy and peaceful. I think it’s tough to get a solution through the legal route. There is a saying “Justice Delayed is justice denied”. So what’s the point going legal way.

    Why you are not daring to join hands with SIFF to fight and abolish 498a and dowry laws. Since Govt crime reports itself says that there 98% false cases and can be neglected. As per your below email 98% of false cases can be neglected and 2% of convictions have to retain dowry and biased laws.
    [Sushma] After reading so many of my responses, you are still questioning my dareness. I’m not afraid to join hands with SIFF. Infact, I thought that’s what I’m trying to do, but with slightly a different stand. I don’t want to fight and create more problems. I just want solutions. Conviction rate is not the measure of a case being true or false as I replied earlier to Amol K.

    For your kind information, I did not change my tone, the mistake is you did not red my email properly. If father have not taken care of his kids then today you won’t be seeing the world’s best and largest family system in India.
    [Sushma] Well, I thought you did because you didn’t use demeaning words and the language is better. Ofcourse, I’m reading each and every line of all your members. I completely agree that the world’s best and largest family system has been in India and still is. I see it falling apart. Did I say fathers don’t take care of kids? I think all I said was generally mothers take more care than fathers.

    Ask yourself:
    1. Will you / did you harass to your sister-in-law?
    2. Will your / did your brother harass to his sister-in-law?
    3. Will you / did you harass to your daughter-in-law?
    4. Will your / did your father harass to his daughter-in-law?
    5. Will your / did your mother harass to her daughter-in-law?
    6. Will your / did your brother harass to his wife?
    7. Will your / did your cousin harass to his/her sister-in-law?
    8. Will your / did your father neglect you to look after at your well being, education, career and life?
    9. Will you / did you demand for dowry while getting married to your brother?
    10. Will you / did you demand for dowry while getting married to your son?
    [Sushma] My answer to all your TEN questions – it depends on what you define as harassment. If any person makes the other person lose their self-esteem(the very basis of their existence) and curtails the freedom of another person on what he/she can do and cannot do, then it is harassment. Going by that definition, I’ll never harass anyone. And I’ll not let my brothers, sisters, mother, father, friends and relatives harass anyone. However, if someone is harassing, I think one needs to retort back, but not with vengeance.

    Your answers to above TEN questions, will give you answer what to do for solution. A greedy woman has to think thrice before running to police station regarding kids and their future. We are fathers always think about kids well being, future and pays child maintenance irrespective of our mental and financial conditions that’s what men heart attack death ratio is huge in India.
    [Sushma] A woman has to think not 3, but 100 times especially when kids are involved. I believe all mothers also always think and are concerned about kids well-being and future. I don’t understand your analysis behind heart attacks. Are you seeing fathers in your organization are getting heart attacks or in general men get heart attacks only because they think about children’s future. And mothers not getting heart attacks implies they don’t think as much as fathers.

    Sushma, you won’t understand our pain and mental agony what we are going through, some time we feel better to have a street prostitute in our life as a wife than these greedy and scrupulous 498a women – “Legal Terrorist”.
    [Sushma] You wouldn’t know what that street prostitute will demand if you treat her like a wife. Honestly Taj, I do understand the pain and mental agony of men being harassed by women. And I do understand the pain and mental agony of women being harassed by men. Harassment is common – it’s just roles reversed, isn’t it?

    Finally, i would recommend you to understand the situation of this group members, their mental state of mind, their mental agony, harassment that we are going through and facts from various Govt dept and agencies. And then you can write your comments and resolution to have peace and harmony among men and women.

    [Sushma] As I said, I understand your situation. However, I don’t understand your mental state of mind to write such bad and demeaning things about women, however bad she may be. Again, facts serve no purpose unless there is a solution. Even I can get facts contradicting your facts, but that serves no ones purpose. There is a saying in Sanskrit – “Yatra Naryastu Poojyante, Tatra Ramante Devata” – Where women are honored, Divinity blossoms there.
    Till then bye…

  30. Hi Taj,
    I don’t think you being a woman should have so much vengeance. Anyways, hope my reply calms you down a little bit. Please see inline

  31. Taj,

    I’m a woman.
    I’m a mother.
    I’m an NRI.
    I’m a Software Engineer.
    I’m here because I’m a victim of your blogs and organizations. And above all I’m here because I’m seeing a few trends in the current society which is going to hamper the future of Indian sacred institution of marriage.

    I don’t have any personal agendas except a happy and peaceful life for the next generation. Did anyone in this organization watch the movie “Zindagi Na Milegi Dobara“? I just did and it’s such a fantastic movie. The motto is “Live your life to the fullest”. Ofcourse, not at the expense of someone. If one is living one’s life and in the process hurting someone, then it’s not good. No ill-feelings against anyone, just a happy and peaceful life with complete freedom and complete harmony.

    This is what I want to give my child and this is what I want each one of you to give your children.

    Agreed there are loopholes, but where there are no loopholes? What I’m suggesting is to bring the wife and husband and their families for talks. Both the parties might not agree. Then there has to be some force to bring in both the parties (and this force may be police). No need of police if there are marital disputes and both can solve in presence of other elders in the society.
    In olden days, we used to have village heads. Similarly, both husband and wife can bring in someone whom both trust and tell their grievances. If resolved fine. As an alternative, we can volunteer to have several organizations where we can solve these problems ourselves. For that we all should be unbiased first.

    The straight solutions that you propose are in the hands of someone else – politicians, bureaucrats and influenced by many other factors. I don’t have confidence that they’ll happen anytime soon even if I strongly and adamantly support. Above all, even if they happen, I don’t have the confidence that men and women will live in harmony and set a good example for this children.

    Hope you understand.

  32. Most of us here are
    SON
    Husband and Fathers and have sense of better Future for our children, and Society.
    thats why we are here.
    We listen whatever you said and Wrote and im sure none of your comments are blocked/deleted or moderated, even its mens group.
    if we post same type of comments on women group or henpecked men group or media sites, none published.
    As a women you have to tell whatever you wrote, to NCW/WCD and let us know if they listen, for sure they will list you in Anti women group. no doubt.

  33. One more comment by a member:

    IPC 498A if missused will certainly destroy families.

    the husband will carve for revenge, & also for blood,

    in my case the parents did not teach her daughter how to live the life of a good cultured indian wife or as a indian bahu or as a indian mother.

    she was taught as to being only a loyal & obdient daughter, they loved their daughter soo much that they were not ready to part with her,

    constantly they used to instigate her to come to her parents house for full moon & half moon.

    they wanted to celebrate all the festivals in their own house,

    they did not value indian traditions & indian cluture.

    it is not the mistake of my wife, but her elders in the house,

    she never valued her husband, nor her inlaws or her own daughter.

    she did not know how to behave as a wife or as a bahu ar as a mother of a daughter.

    she was toooooo close with her uncle, does not mean that she has to discuss all the bedroom secrets with him.

    how do u answer that.

    my case is in GANGAVATHI, KOPPAL DISTRICT, KARNATAKA, INDIA.

    she wanted me to give her all my salary, & wanted o live a life of luxuary & comfort.

    by filing false criminal cases she has destroyed her own life & daughters life.

    the husband is bound to take revenge on her in the near future.

    if she stays in her matriminoal house who will respect her family, how will she marry her brothers & sisters,

    who will give or tke a bride or groom in a FALSE 498A wives house.

    this society respects INDIAN VALUES & TRADITIONS. NOT FALSE 498A WIVES who wants to dominate her husbands family & upon the instigation of her elders files FALSE CRIMINAL CASES.

    life is just not 4 to 5 years , it is 50 to 60 years to live & let live.

    a husand can take revenge any time, any where & on anyone if he & his family is falsely accused & harrassed by the wives family.

    a false 498a husband might spend 4-7 years in jail, but after that, what will happen to the wives family.

    there are lot of cases which are going on.

    the husband going & killing on the entire wives family,

    if this goes on then only the india law system will wake up.

    each falsely harrased husband has to take the law in his own hands.

  34. My response to that member:
    ————–
    Not sure what to say to you!!!

    Couple of questions before I can comment on your situation:
    1. Do you stay with your parents, sisters and brothers?
    2. Are you unhappy about her going to parent’s house every once in a while?
    3. Are you unhappy that she is telling her bathroom secrets (not sure what that means) to her uncle (not sure which uncle)? Do you think she is character-less? If so, do you have the proof?
    4. Can you believe lately “498a misuse” is being misused?
    5. Are we humans or monsters to crave for blood? This email has been labeled as “Trash” in my mailbox. Not sure for what, but Google Mail server wants me to trash it. That’s the reason I want you to calm down before penning your thoughts. Take a step back, think through what happened and see if you can mutually resolve. Think about your daughter and make your wife understand. If you are unable to, ask your parents to talk to her parents. Even if that doesn’t work and the wife is adamant/stubborn, involve the girl’s friends and relatives to sit for talks.

    Lastly never get into the mode of so much revenge that you want to kill the girl and her parents. If more and more people kill their wives and wives’ family, then they’ll be even strict laws, isn’t it? Please think and talk.

    ~Sushma

  35. @Indian :

    I’m happy that none of my comments are blocked, deleted or moderated. I really appreciate it.

    Yes, I’ll definitely tell everyone, including NCW/WCD if you want me to. But I need all your support.
    Can you do me one more favor:
    Please give me the list of women’s groups and the so called “hen-pecked” men groups. I’ve been searching on the internet, but couldn’t get any. Probably didn’t key in the right keywords.

    Without any offense, a question which just struck me 🙂
    What is a woman who always listens to a man called – “rooster-pecked” or “cock-pecked”??
    No pun intended.

  36. We have support whoever fight for gender equality and justice.

    search for NCW or WCD or ministry for indian women
    and there is anti family yahoo group called “you are not alone….” of sadist divorced women based in BANGalore.

    also see what they write on their front page of the group.
    “we exchange tips and resources on single parenting, financial management,…..”

    Now you know what they are…

  37. Dear Sushma,

    Hope you’re well!

    This is a forum where we discuss our issues and try to find a solution to our problems. We are not freaking around! I would like to know whether you are harassed by a man/men? I would like to know your purpose of sharing your knowledge here in the first place.

    We are frustrated and angry about those whores, bitches and sluts who have ruined our lives. 498a is one of the Criminal Cases under IPC and we are trying to find a way out to lead our normal lives again. We are fighting to prove that we have not commited any Criminal Offence.

    Today, I think Marriage was my biggest sin.

    I really don’t understand why should you be having problems with our discussions first of all?? You are talking about constructive solution here but do you know that we are already harassed by our lovely 498a wives upto an extent where we can’t go back to normal lives or even think about having one again!

    People like you should educate those bitches/whores/sluts who have ruined families by filing False Cases just to settle scores with their Husbands.

    Again, I don’t understand why are you discussing things under this Forum? Are you hurt by someone or is it just your curiosity which is killing you!?

    I look forward to hearing from you!!

    Kind Regards,

    498a Misuse Victim

  38. Hi Natesh,

    Yes, I have been harassed by men/women and that’s the reason for sharing my knowledge. I thought it was obvious. Otherwise, why would a woman write so much at length?

    I’m trying to tell that both harassed men and women should work in coordination. Unfortunately, you seem to be reluctant. When you work in coordination you are not supposed to use such demeaning language – “whores, bitches and sluts”. How would you react if I called the men who harassed me ….? It’s the same feeling.
    Going by the description of MyNationFoundation, I thought this organization was for gender equality and family harmony.
    In the description of your organization’s yahoo groups, I saw “We also support women who face Domestic Violence”.
    Further it state, “This is a self-help group. You help others and others will help you.”
    This matched what I wanted and that’s the reason I’m here.

    I have been extremely hurt by your blogs and articles and solutions. They are not constructive. They are destroying the institution of marriage. You are saying marriage as your biggest sin!!! And this comment sounds scary. Do you all want to destroy the institution of marriage? Is it just because of few bad women? What about all the good women like me? Did you realize that a few bad men(like the ones in my case, not you) reading your blogs, articles and solutions are increasing the harassment manifold?
    Please don’t tell me all men are good, but only a few women are good. This is not a solution!!!

    I’m not able to do much and feel helpless in my personal situation. That’s the reason I thought I should find solution for someone in similar situation as me. And when I searched on the internet, this was the organization which came up. Is it my fault to express my opinion? I’m trying to help you and expecting help in return for my fellow sisters. This is in accordance to one of your motto “You help others and others will help you.”

    I’m doing everything in accordance to your group, but hearing only negativity. I’m not being received well. I was expecting the treatment that you would give your sister. Now, you tell me what I should do? Like you, even I’m not sure if I would get a response if I approached NCW. What shall I do?

    I’ve been very patient and want a solution. As I said several times, legal laws wouldn’t change much. There will be more loopholes and the cycle goes on and on.
    Looking forward to hearing from you on what the solution is.

    ~Sushma

  39. @Sushma

    I really did not have the time to get back to you… 

    Are you saying, you are not a feminist? Read your responses multiple times…. 
    2% conviction – … you prove me how this could be wrong … 

    On about 1 lakh cases getting registered, 98000 people are suffering arrests, humiliation, career spoiled, etc? Are you educated that you want to avoid gulping the real pain?  

    Do you think we need a 498a? Is there a 498a in US? or UK? .. DV is a civil cases and not criminal in US… Now .. if you are advocating for 498a – you are totally a feminist. No other explanations… 

    Do you know whats the penalty in US for perjury or contempt of court? thankfully india does not have and you people are killing the freedom which Gandhi and so many indians fought to get. … 
    I already wrote a mail to put a minimum penalty of 10 lakhs for every false case and a max of upto 2 times the number of years the case in trial multiplied by average potential annual salary of the accused and obviously no response from the so-called women organizations…. 

    ie. if an accused in 498a’s annual salary is 10 lakhs per annum, let the penalty be 80 lakhs and we will see how many 498a’s are being written in the indian judiciary… 

    What are you afraid of? if truth is with you and if you trust 498a delivers justice, then go ahead and accept the penalty .. .

  40. @MD

    Sure…penalty should definitely be there. However, I’m not sure if a dependent woman can really pay what is being asked. So, are you saying a dependent women should just suffer because she can’t pay that much. Since I’m immature, I don’t even know how much these presumably false case women are actually asking. Is it beyond the capability of the man?

    We can definitely do what is generally done in western countries. Generally in western countries spousal support/child support is determined by the salaries of both men and women. Even there if a women doesn’t work, the man has to pay almost his entire pay check. We can have similar laws.
    Unfortunately, there is not enough credibility in our system. If we can bring that credibility, there is no problem in implementing any of these laws or amendments.

    Yes, about the conviction rate, if you are challenging me, I’ll prove to you.
    I personally don’t want to comment on whether we need a 498a or not because women in western countries are much more empowered than Indian women because of the cultural differences and family values. Further, DV is a serious thing and makes drastic impact on child custody and child support. However, let me ask you this : If we remove 498a, isn’t there a possibility that dependent innocent wife will become helpless if the husband divorces and leaves her and her kids? Honestly tell me the solution how we handle it and definitely we can talk about it.

    That’s exactly what I’m saying. Being firm on one thing is not the solution. Communication is the key. Writing to NCW or PM or Rahul Gandhi will mere be letters. The solution has to come from us. Both men and women should be ready to compromise and come to a mutual agreement.
    If you can’t provide solution for safe guarding the interest of innocent women, how can one convince the women’s organizations for whom they actually work. You have to understand that they don’t work for people like me. To tell you the truth, they don’t even reply to educated woman because they know we’re self-sufficient. Unfortunately, you are just targeting educated woman and requesting a change in the law. Please keep in mind if you can propose in such a way that innocent/dependent woman are covered, your ideas can definitely make through.

    Again, I’m not a feminist. If you think I am, then upto you.

  41. Dear Indian brother,

    I’ve read the articles about other organizations not having credibility on SIF.
    What you want will happen only if you work in coordination with them?
    This is my honest suggestion. Help women and they’ll immediately help men.
    I’ve been following lot of the members stories/comments. It’s past midnight for me(2:30 am) and I’m still looking.

    Expand your horizons to suffering women too. Invite more suffering women – not just mothers and sisters. Women who are suffering in the hands of men.
    Your voice will surely be heard. I understand what you are requesting, but unfortunately women’s organizations can always come up cases which void yours.

    I can help bring in real harassed women and share their experiences and write blogs to SIF. You have to make sure that all male members here use decent language. Bottom-line : Women should not get hurt by what men are saying/writing. They should get confidence and together they should discuss the solution.

    Let me tell you the truth – Women are far more emotional than men. In a couple of stories that I’ve read, I do sense the hurt caused to a woman. It might be trivial and simple issue for men, but it’s a big deal for women. I can forward you a copy of “Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus”. Keeping women happy is the key. You’ll see immediate positive reaction from her. Again that doesn’t mean you should yield to all her demands.
    Let’s take the case of a 3-year old child:
    He/she keeps demanding they want this and that. As parents, do you think we satisfy each and every of their request? We don’t, isn’t it. We satisfy some and convince on others. Women are exactly the same. Satisfy some of her requests and they’ll compromise on others and only then everyone will be happy.
    Without women in your organization, you are getting into a complicated mode. I saw a message which said only 100/6000 cases have been sent as misuse to NCW/WCD. What happened to the rest of 5900?

    Few men responded personally to me. Some of these men are such that no case has been filed yet, but anticipate some problem. There is a possibility that something happened between the couple which really hurt the woman. Now men like these are reading the articles and blogs here and losing hope for reconciliation. Further, the stories here are scaring these young men and they are losing trust on their wives (though it’s possible that it’s actually the wife who is hurt) and he needs to do his bit. There are other men who seem to changing their tone and understanding if we convince them. I understand they are hurt too, but vengeance is not good for men. I sense more vengeance in men than women and this is affecting him big time. Women are filing the cases and demanding. This is not how it should be if it’s indeed a false case?

    I really don’t understand how to go about this. I want to reach women who have been very vindictive. Is it possible to get contact info of someone like that?
    In all the cases, I’ve heard men saying the following:
    1. Wife talks at length to her parents.
    2. Wife goes to her parents very often.
    3. Wife suddenly left without informing and didn’t come back for months.
    4. Wife shares bedroom secrets with uncle/parents.
    5. Parents are too possessive of the girl and may have found a rich boy and hence separating her.
    6. Wife took away jewellery.
    7. Wife tries to alienate from husband’s parents and siblings.
    8. Wife extracts money.
    9. Wife’s parents brainwashed wife
    All these to me don’t sound strong grounds for saying a case as false. I’m really concerned what these women can say against men. They can say much more things and they have strong ground because a woman though bad still goes to husband’s house. All this is a big big mess. And the worst affected are innocent children. If women’s emotional needs are taken care of, all of the above can be easily solved. I’ve seen many such cases too.

    However, the only ground where I think it would be dismissed as false is adultery/illicit relationship and that’s tough to prove unless it is true.

    Please don’t go by the conviction rate. Even I filed a 498a recently only as a last resort when all my attempts for talks failed – they never were ready to sit for peaceful resolution. I haven’t yet filed charge sheet and am ready to withdraw if they stop their harassment and settle peacefully. Inspite of having suffered a lot, I don’t have time and energy to take it all the way for another 7 years because I might get justice eventually, but 7 years of my precious life go wasted, my parents will suffer, my child will suffer and I’ll be interested to know the updates for 7 whole years, isn’t it? So, will my case become false?

    As I suggested, the best solution for this organization is to have both men and women – true to the name “Save Indian Family”. You’ll be the only organization of the kind and in the process we may be even able to get rid of NCW or other women’s organizations.
    Believe me – women need men support for their voice to be heard, how much ever empowerment they might talk. And I’m proposing you to be that organization.

    I wanted to write to larger audience, but as promised I’m not doing it.
    Please provide your feedback and if you are interested I’d like to discuss a few specific cases. Co-existence of men and women is not as complicated as it seems. Just the right direction is what is required.

    Best Regards,
    Sushma

  42. There are so many women organisation including Govt one so they dont need ours or others to listen to their stories.
    Even we send real life struggles of men that overpowered by Women Govt bodies which control govt or authorities. like Lawyer collective/NCW/WCD just because we men do not have ministry for us.

    You think women is weaker, but as per me men are more valunarable than women, there r more men committed suicide than women who broke, coz in Divorce women hit the jakpot and man go bankrupt. You can keep man happy with some food and little sex, but women is not happy with that, her want are unlimited, what is hers is hers and what belongs to husband also hers, thats how indian Laws operate. in Divorce most of the women get maitenance, even husband has no work, one Delhi judge said, beg,borrow,steal and pay, thats the situation of india.

    When you post in our forum obiously men will blast you, becuase they are hurt by women and treat all others same.it is not only women has emotional needs, man too a social animal, most women think only her family as her family and demand husband too and ignore his parents and siblings, if women is stopped she make bigg issue out of this, but when women blackmail men not to meet his side he cannt do anything and his family also term he is doing as his wife says, i have same kind of men in my own family, so it is not only women are harassed but men too, but fo rmen no one is there to listen.
    As i wrote earlier. Everyone lsiten to Women, even its sob story but we men dont have any, we are not after getrif of NCW/WCD, our demand is we also want a ministry. thats equality, unless women organisation agree for that, women problem will not be solved.

  43. I thought you would understand with a broad mind. My suggestion was only to be unbiased. Invite more women and these women may even be able to help solutions for your specific cases too.

    It’s always good to have two brains thinking rather than just one. It’s my personal opinion that it’s very tough to bring out the change without women. Your stories will be heard only by men here. And unfortunately how ever genuine a case may be, forget about women, your own kind men elsewhere will not hear. If you want to be heard, that’s the only option. It’s okay even if I’m blasted, but I’m for the change. I’m very hopeful that lot more will definitely agree if the proposal is put. It’s just on how you put it.

    I’m repeating your own words – think with the brain, not with the heart. I’ve read somewhere that when all doors close using one (head or heart), use the other. Well, there is no point if you say that the doors are actually opening up for men. The truth is they neither open up from men nor women.
    Think about it.

    ~Sushma

  44. its like corrupt politicians of india fighting against corruption;

    forget it.

  45. Okay…it’s upto you.
    Only now I understood you are hard-core men.

    Few parting comments to ponder about:
    1. To tell you the truth, I know men being harassed by women and they are not part of your organization. This firmness in your stance definitely puts at least some skepticism on your stories.
    2. You all are so united in your brotherhood that you don’t want to see the pain of any sister. Well, you’ll know only when your own sister/daughter goes through the same harassment.
    3. I guess you, like a few feminist organizations, seek media attention not genuine solutions. The entire system is corrupt. Neither genuine male nor genuine female will get justice.
    4. You are not for the TRUTH. Please change your organizations names. What does “Nation”, Gandhi and Indian have to do with this fight against women? And how is “SaveIndianFamily” saving any family. Did it save even a single family? Well, probably family means your parents, sisters and brothers. Don’t you understand that after marriage it means wife, children and husband?
    5. Don’t you think I understand the 10% of commandos will shut the mouth of 90% victims? Poor victims blindly following the commandos.

    I made an attempt with open mind and heart to bring about a change in your mindsets, but I miserably failed. All that I was asking was to work in coordination with women. If you noticed, I didn’t oppose any of your views.

    Anyways, please don’t start any more organizations since I believe there is no point. Only when you provide solution for innocent/dependent/down-trodden women, you can talk about educated women. If required there can be 2 different laws, one for down-trodden and the other for educated.
    Think about it, have press meetings and become a leader!!! Don’t just be a commando. I’ll be happy to see my Indian brother on TV, newspapers, etc.

    Wishing nothing but the best 🙂

    ~Sushma

  46. Sorry to say, Legal terrorist never understand what we saved, for them what they did was right.
    and for your information we did`t saved any SINGLE FAMILY, but we saved many from suicide;
    unfortunately we could not save 4 lives, so far as they forced to committ suicide, and we are little late to approach them.
    When Legal Terrorist dug their own grave we cannt resurrect them and save their families but we helped many of our brothers to fight against such terrorists and start new family and SAVE FAMILY

  47. @ Sushma and others who think like Suhma:

    Sushma: About rented house, mortgage, etc – good that you brought this point. Why should the woman earn in the first place? Isn’t she taking this extra burden for a good lifestyle for the entire family? Does she spend her entire salary on make-up sets, jewellery, etc? Is it not woman who are supposed to deck themselves with make-up and jewellery? Even in the olden days when women never earned or contributed to rent or mortgage, they decked up with jewellery brought out of their husband’s salary.Well, do you ever realize that women do something which men don’t? And that’s the basis of all of our existence today. For bearing the child in her womb for 9 months, can’t we allow her to deck herself and not pay the mortgage? When need arises wouldn’t she give the money for children’s education or anything that both decide to do together.If we talk about equality in every matter (even in financial matters about women’s contribution, etc), what characteristic of man can we use to neutralize the motherhood of a woman?
    MD: If this is what your education and understanding of western culture helped you, then you just have to go out and meet more western women. There are many western countries where married couples trust each other and live without divorce. Look at France’s statistics… 
    Lets compare with the so called developed country women.. in US or UK, married women or girl friend shares half or a portion of the rent and mortgage based on her earning potential .. if she is a true marriage material, she definitely will not take the man for a ride.. though she spends on make up, straightening hair, etc – she does not expect the luxury of both Indian and Western culture…. Indian girls are so confused by watching american movies… they just take the best … and let the other things go…
    And you say you needs the advantage since the girl decides to conceive a child…. 
    First of all, a girl needs to understand that she wants this particular guy (husband) to give the seed for her child. Though she has 100’s of options, she chose to use this man’s seed. Now she can’t claim anything more than just that….If you are doing this conceiving baby for every man you find on the street, then this is a great deed – however thats not the case; You or your family chooses this man based on a number of factors…. When this matching is done, you really can’t claim anything; Its a great offer from a man to make a girl feel something special in herself.. being a mother and bearing a child of a man she loves…

     this is a world of equality we are all advocating… Eye is not more powerful than mouth.. we just need to be mature and understand that…. 
    Most of this educated women just let their minds spoil and erode… Old indian generation is still the gold standard

    And come out of your justification that you need a 498a to help women… what did the education give you and why are you even working in a job? If there is a so called harassment – why take it in the first point… walk off – who is stopping you…. why you need to marry and make a man suffer. if a women goes to court and files a divorce – no indian judge stops it..

    What do you need on top of this? Tell me if a girl wants a divorce, can a man really force her to live? A girl has many ways to make a man to divorce; legal terrorism and any support towards that mentality is not education….

    Look at life with tolerance, dicipline and practical expectations….

    you want to help women – you help man first because a man is currently in need (98000 suffering for 2000 accused).. fight with us – remove or modify this law; May be atleast the men in our organization will thank you and will have hope for modern educated indian woman.   

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